Relatively speaking, more deaths occur because of the harder regime trying to block them from entering europe. Its such nonsense this blocking human beings from moving on planet earth... Anyone seen the movie "the visitor"?

Lex wrote:
Its such nonsense this blocking human beings from moving on planet earth... Anyone seen the movie "the visitor"?
That's a rather naive statement Lex if I may be so bold. There has to be some degree of control because of the huge disparity in wealth between the developed world and the rest. It is unfortunate that we have reached this stage, mainly because of the free movement of people during colonial expansion in the nineteenth century, but simply to open all borders now would destabilise the global economy. A more fair distribution of wealth is desirable and would go some way to address the problem of mass migration, be it actual or pent up.

No, have not seen the film but will try and download it.

You want to try living in the UK !! Wish they would block them coming here !!!!

Societies that stopped mixing with other cultures have all disappeared. I think it really is nonsense deciding where people are allowed to live based on the kind of papers they've got. Wealth would automatically be more distributed that way too.

You have got to be kidding !!!! About the wealth i mean.
They come to the UK with nothing and get given houses money and cars, while people who were born here have to go on a list and apply for houses which they dont get because they have all been given to the immigrants !!!

Lex wrote:
Societies that stopped mixing with other cultures have all disappeared. I think it really is nonsense deciding where people are allowed to live based on the kind of papers they've got. Wealth would automatically be more distributed that way too.
I agree with your first point Lex and, in an ideal world, I would agree with the second. However, we have to deal with the world as we find it. In Gran Canaria for example, what would happen if Spain was to allow everyone to come here who wanted to? There would be a growing stream of people from Africa attracted by the comparative wealth here. The state would then be expected to support them. Is that really feasible at present? There has to be a level of control or the services here would collapse under the pressure. Of course, immigration controls should only be part of the story and there should be more effort to improve the lives of the people in their own countries.

If richer countries can afford to take asylum seekers and some economic migrants in they they should do so. I am actually proud that the UK does so.

I of course admit the irony of the situation in which I as an immigrant to GC am arguing in favour of controlling how many people can come here.

Exactly Don you can be proud because you dont live here, if you did you may not be quite so proud, unfortunately its all got out of hand now and it wont be very long til we (british) will be a minority in our own country

Well Marilyn, I was just waiting for the comment about not living there anymore - I was not disappointed.

I suspect that my views on who you can define as British are likely radically different from yours.

I tried to add to my post before i left the office but the page was so slow in opening i ran out of time lol

I was going to say, the difference between you being an immigrant on GC is the fact that you did not expect to get a house given to you and handouts of money !!!
I suspect that if the immigrants to britain were not given these things they wouldnt be in a hurry to come here!

I have no problem with immigrants coming and WORKING to earn a living and keep themselves and also put a roof over their heads with the money.

There was an article in the paper here not so long ago stating the amount of money that the foreigners working here are sending back to their own country, i dont see how this is helping Britain ? It was an horrendous amount i can assure you.

As for who i define as british would be people who are born here, whose great grandparents and so on were also born here

Maz wrote:

I was going to say, the difference between you being an immigrant on GC is the fact that you did not expect to get a house given to you and handouts of money !!!
I suspect that if the immigrants to britain were not given these things they wouldnt be in a hurry to come here!
Quite possibly a minority would not be. Depends on which newspaper you read or which headline you believe but surely the majority of immigrants do go to the UK to make a better life for themselves through their own efforts. Stories about inefficient local authorities providing expensive accommodation to immigrants ahead of others on the housing queue do tend to grab the headlines.

There was an article in the paper here not so long ago stating the amount of money that the foreigners working here are sending back to their own country, i dont see how this is helping Britain ? It was an horrendous amount i can assure you.
I think that you will find that this is a drop in the ocean compared to the income the UK derives in loans to developing countries so it's swings and roundabouts really. I of course make the assumption here that most of the money sent abroad by immigrants is earned through employment.

As for who i define as british would be people who are born here, whose great grandparents and so on were also born here
That seems an extraordinarily harsh rule. My great grandfather was born in 1856 so if he did not happen to have been born in the UK then, under your rule, I would not be British despite the fact that his family would likely have been in the UK for around 150 years. All eight of one's great grandparents would have to have been born in the UK for one to be classed as British. Can you be sure that everyone you know would qualify as British?

By way of illustration, under your rule, the children of the Queen and their children would not be classed as British due to the fact that Prince Philip is Greek and one of their great grandmothers was German. There are plenty of other examples I can think of if you are not a royalist.

I dont have to read it in the newspapers i live with it everyday !!

You are right im not a royalist

And im not going to take this any further, you have your views and i have mine and i guess we must agree to differ

Maybe if i go to live in another country, my views on the UK problem may change ( and i might not think there is a problem)

Fair enough but there's nothing wrong with a healthy discussion

Ready for another Spanish lesson?

Words in Spanish & English:

Solo voy con mi pena
Sola va mi condena
Correr es mi destino
Para burlar la ley
Perdido en el corazn
De la grande Babylon
Me dicen el clandestino
Por no llevar papel

Pa' una ciudad del norte
Yo me fui a trabajar
Mi vida la dej
Entre Ceuta y Gibraltar
Soy una raya en el mar
Fantasma en la ciudad
Mi vida va prohibida
Dice la autoridad

Solo voy con mi pena
Sola va mi condena
Correr es mi destino
Por no llevar papel
Perdido en el corazn
De la grande Babylon
Me dicen el clandestino
Yo soy el quiebra ley

Mano Negra clandestina
Peruano clandestino
Africano clandestino
Marijuana illegal

Solo voy con mi pena
Sola va mi condena
Correr es mi destino
Para burlar la ley
Perdido en el corazn
De la grande Babylon
Me dicen el clandestino
Por no llevar papel

Argelino, Clandestino!
Nigeriano, Clandestino!
Boliviano, Clandestino!
Mano Negra, Ilegal!

-------------------------------

(english Translation)


Alone I go with my sorrow
Alone goes my sentence
To run is my destiny
To escape the law
Lost in the heart of the great Babylon
They call me
clandestine
For not having any papers

To a city of the north
I went to work
I left my life
Between Ceuta and
Gibraltar
I’m a line in the sea
A ghost in the city
My life is forbidden
So says the authority

Alone I go with my sorrow
Alone goes my sentence
To run is my destiny
For having no papers
Lost in the heart
Of the great Babylon
They call me clandestine
I’m the lawbreaker

Black Hand clandestine
Peruvian clandestine
African clandestine
Marihuana illegal

Alone I go with my sorrow
Alone goes my sentence
To run is my destiny
To escape the law
Lost in the heart of the great Babylon
They call me
clandestine
For not having any papers

Algerian, Clandestine
Nigerian, Clandestine
Bolivian, Clandestine
Black Hand, Illegal

Being I suppose a half-breed myself, with dual American/English nationality, I like being able to travel freely, unencumbered by man made borders, and feel sorry for people who want to move, to give themselves a better life.

My home was in Texas until I was 18, though I went to school in England from the age of 8, and my grandparents lived there. I went to college in Switzerland and then Germany, and then I lived in California until I (stupidly) got married.

Personally I feel that I do have roots, but those roots are all over the place, and that's kind of liberating.

If I lived in some dirt poor country I'd definitely be on a raft, paddlin' as fast as I could to wherever, in the hope of a better life...and I hope I wouldn't be met with too much hostility when I'd dragged my sorry' ol ass to whichever country the tides had washed me.

Trixie International x

Trixie wrote:
If I lived in some dirt poor country I'd definitely be on a raft, paddlin' as fast as I could to wherever, in the hope of a better life...and I hope I wouldn't be met with too much hostility when I'd dragged my sorry' ol ass to whichever country the tides had washed me.

same same for me

well, not just for the money, but possibility wise. A better life indeed. (And I've spoken with guys in african countries, not just hypothetical talk this)

we're lucky devils having been born where we are

A meeting of minds at last today

Lex wrote:
Trixie wrote:
If I lived in some dirt poor country I'd definitely be on a raft, paddlin' as fast as I could to wherever, in the hope of a better life...and I hope I wouldn't be met with too much hostility when I'd dragged my sorry' ol ass to whichever country the tides had washed me.

same same for me

well, not just for the money, but possibility wise. A better life indeed. (And I've spoken with guys in african countries, not just hypothetical talk this)

we're lucky devils having been born where we are

You're right.

Migrants don't just leave the countries of their birth, where they have roots, family, and emotional ties, purely for economic benefit. I suppose they are seeking a future where their children have a better access to education, health care, and political stability etc, etc.

Five miilion children die in Africa each year because of HIV. In the west we have drug combinations that could cut that figure to almost zero. It's a sad, crazy, and mixed up world we live in.

I class myself as lucky as to life's lottery choice of where I was born.

Given different circumstances you can bet your sweet ass I'd be paddling my raft across dangerous seas, if it meant the chance of a better life for me and my family.

Trixie x